- Posts: 168
COMMUNITY FORUM
- Forum
- K2 Community Forum
- English K2 Community
- Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
13 years 7 months ago #93655
by bunglehaze
Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation was created by bunglehaze
Fotis, as you requested here is a post regarding the loading speed bottleneck I am having with my K2 based site, I have tried turning off plugins and components, reshuffling plugins around and enabling catalog mode for main categories, child categories etc but I am baffled.
Basically the site on an empty cache takes a few seconds to oad as expected, after this is is sub 1 second here, click to my main category page and it stays a few seconds which is still a little slow. Then you go into a sub category and the load slows right down, testing on webwait with an average 5 cycles shows:
Homepage - contains tons of modules, content articles and other goodies average= 2.10seconds
Child category page, perhaps 6 articles loading, not image intensive, average= 37.09seconds
The site in question is:
bikechatter.co.uk/index.php
Main category in its current guise is:
bikechatter.co.uk/articles.html
And finally a child category can be viewed at:
bikechatter.co.uk/articles/motorcycle-site-news.html
What is equally odd here though is that loading articles directly is as quick as expected so logically I have been looking at child categories being the issue.
One thing I have had a lot of problems with is the RSS feeds timing out or returning as html pages, I am guessing that this might be linked somehow. As you can probably see from the site there is a lot of content, most of it has been carefully optimised to keep loading times low but I just cannot figure where the hell this speed issue is coming from or how to counteract it - if you want a login creating please let me know - hopefully it is something you have seen before or an obvious issue others might get a fix for - I am at the end of my tether trying to figure the source.
Cheers
Leigh
Basically the site on an empty cache takes a few seconds to oad as expected, after this is is sub 1 second here, click to my main category page and it stays a few seconds which is still a little slow. Then you go into a sub category and the load slows right down, testing on webwait with an average 5 cycles shows:
Homepage - contains tons of modules, content articles and other goodies average= 2.10seconds
Child category page, perhaps 6 articles loading, not image intensive, average= 37.09seconds
The site in question is:
bikechatter.co.uk/index.php
Main category in its current guise is:
bikechatter.co.uk/articles.html
And finally a child category can be viewed at:
bikechatter.co.uk/articles/motorcycle-site-news.html
What is equally odd here though is that loading articles directly is as quick as expected so logically I have been looking at child categories being the issue.
One thing I have had a lot of problems with is the RSS feeds timing out or returning as html pages, I am guessing that this might be linked somehow. As you can probably see from the site there is a lot of content, most of it has been carefully optimised to keep loading times low but I just cannot figure where the hell this speed issue is coming from or how to counteract it - if you want a login creating please let me know - hopefully it is something you have seen before or an obvious issue others might get a fix for - I am at the end of my tether trying to figure the source.
Cheers
Leigh
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93656
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
As typically as it can be, I have rebuilt the cache directory, moved some categories out of a top level category and added the original K2.css file to my html overrides and it loads quickly again. Not sure how or why but I will keep an eye on it.
leigh :)
leigh :)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- JoomlaWorks
- Offline
- Admin
Less
More
- Posts: 6213
13 years 7 months ago #93657
by JoomlaWorks
Fotis / JoomlaWorks Support Team
---
Please search the forum before posting a new topic :)
Replied by JoomlaWorks on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Just run some tests with Firebug on all 3 pages...
1. All 3 pages load at around 12-13 seconds which is normal for this amount of content for a site (and considering it's probably on shared hosting or some small VPS, right?)...
2. There is a 1.6-2 seconds lag from the server to start serving content
3. You have waaaaaay too many CSS files. Try grouping them into one. Same for JS files.
4. If there is no user input for content in the frontend (I'm not referring to contact forms etc.), you should enable Joomla's cache and set it around 15 mins, make sure ALL modules have the caching option set to "Global" and finally enable the system plugin called "Page Cache" (in its settings, use 2-3 mins for expiration and set browser caching to OFF). These steps will significantly improve the performance of your site.
Other things to take into consideration...
- If your category tree is too deep (e.g. 4,5,6 or more levels) and you got over 1000 articles in your site, make sure that your menu items set for fetching content from multiple categories have these categories "selected" by hand (in the menu item settings). That way, K2 knows exactly which categories to fetch (as you've explicitly selected them) and it does not do recurring queries to fetch content. Same goes for mod_k2_content. Additionally, upgrade to SVN 2.5. A small fix in the K2 router improved performance up to 500% on sites with more than a handful of articles.
- If you are on a shared hosting plan or VPS, there is always a chance the host machine's resources are consumed by some other site or VPS respectively ;)
1. All 3 pages load at around 12-13 seconds which is normal for this amount of content for a site (and considering it's probably on shared hosting or some small VPS, right?)...
2. There is a 1.6-2 seconds lag from the server to start serving content
3. You have waaaaaay too many CSS files. Try grouping them into one. Same for JS files.
4. If there is no user input for content in the frontend (I'm not referring to contact forms etc.), you should enable Joomla's cache and set it around 15 mins, make sure ALL modules have the caching option set to "Global" and finally enable the system plugin called "Page Cache" (in its settings, use 2-3 mins for expiration and set browser caching to OFF). These steps will significantly improve the performance of your site.
Other things to take into consideration...
- If your category tree is too deep (e.g. 4,5,6 or more levels) and you got over 1000 articles in your site, make sure that your menu items set for fetching content from multiple categories have these categories "selected" by hand (in the menu item settings). That way, K2 knows exactly which categories to fetch (as you've explicitly selected them) and it does not do recurring queries to fetch content. Same goes for mod_k2_content. Additionally, upgrade to SVN 2.5. A small fix in the K2 router improved performance up to 500% on sites with more than a handful of articles.
- If you are on a shared hosting plan or VPS, there is always a chance the host machine's resources are consumed by some other site or VPS respectively ;)
Fotis / JoomlaWorks Support Team
---
Please search the forum before posting a new topic :)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93658
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Thanks for getting back to me, the site is hosted on my private server along with a handful of much smaller client sites - nothing that really uses much in the way of resources, it is a decent spec machine for what it needs to do and rarely goes over 15% Ram and 1.5 cpu - except when I enable the Joomla cache plugin - then it goes berserk and spikes upwards of 50cpu, it seems to get in a cycle and wont recover without a server reboot so I try not to find the cause.
With this being a dedicated server would you say performance is lower than you would expect in server lag? I always find a lag of a couple of seconds prior to loading a page on this site but as a comparison one of my clients sites - fishmansfrags.co.uk/ does not suffer the same issue and after caching is lightning.
Css files, I am running through them all as I go along but this is something I am trying to do.
Javascripts - not really sure how I can do this as I tried in the past but ended up causing more issues than it would have caused, this is one reason I really wish Joomla would have just stuck with a unified JS library as I have jquery, joms.jquery (why they had to use their own version I will never know) and now the super bloated mootools 1.2 to add to all the minor scripts the components and modules load.
Frontend cache is turned on in Global Config, and I would prefer to enable page cache too (how do you limit the expiration time as I can only see a setting for browser cache in the plugin?)
The category tree is indeed setup to pull individual categories as found this sped up matters over the latest items setting - I will give the 2.5 SVN a go as I have seen others say it has really improved speed, obviously my main concern was keeping the site running as stably as possible.
One final thing, I have a pro license for SIG Pro and have it installed to handle image galleries but actually run another plugin called SIGE above it in the plugins list as it handles watermarking on XL images - is watermarking something you are likely to add to SIGPro? Or should I continue with the alternaive??
Thanks for taking the time to look at it for me.
With this being a dedicated server would you say performance is lower than you would expect in server lag? I always find a lag of a couple of seconds prior to loading a page on this site but as a comparison one of my clients sites - fishmansfrags.co.uk/ does not suffer the same issue and after caching is lightning.
Css files, I am running through them all as I go along but this is something I am trying to do.
Javascripts - not really sure how I can do this as I tried in the past but ended up causing more issues than it would have caused, this is one reason I really wish Joomla would have just stuck with a unified JS library as I have jquery, joms.jquery (why they had to use their own version I will never know) and now the super bloated mootools 1.2 to add to all the minor scripts the components and modules load.
Frontend cache is turned on in Global Config, and I would prefer to enable page cache too (how do you limit the expiration time as I can only see a setting for browser cache in the plugin?)
The category tree is indeed setup to pull individual categories as found this sped up matters over the latest items setting - I will give the 2.5 SVN a go as I have seen others say it has really improved speed, obviously my main concern was keeping the site running as stably as possible.
One final thing, I have a pro license for SIG Pro and have it installed to handle image galleries but actually run another plugin called SIGE above it in the plugins list as it handles watermarking on XL images - is watermarking something you are likely to add to SIGPro? Or should I continue with the alternaive??
Thanks for taking the time to look at it for me.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93659
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Ok, upgraded to 2.5SVN, left the site running for a day and the slowness has returned again, same setup as this time last night where all categories were equally quick. Now if I turn on page cache the server does not spike which is great but there seems to be no performance gain so far.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93660
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Fotis, a little feedback on this, I have combined a load of css files and done some other tweaks on todays SVN which shows the same lag but ONLY under this set of child categories - EG: The main category I used for the example above is 'articles' with a child category of 'product releases', if I take the product releases category out of articles and have it as a top level category it is quick to load again, back in 'articles' and it slows down.
If I move it within my 'site galleries' category it slows a little but nothing like that of the main 'articles' category so it seems to me that the like from main to sub category is perhaps slow on my site at least and for whatever reason I cannot see.
For obvious reasons the main category and all of its subcategories have been listed and linked together and need to stay this way though I can easily take all the child categories out, list them as main categories and get the performance back but this leaves a headache of how then to display and link all the categories manually on one page (I hope you understand what I mean here as it is a little jumbled I'm sure)
Regards
Leigh
If I move it within my 'site galleries' category it slows a little but nothing like that of the main 'articles' category so it seems to me that the like from main to sub category is perhaps slow on my site at least and for whatever reason I cannot see.
For obvious reasons the main category and all of its subcategories have been listed and linked together and need to stay this way though I can easily take all the child categories out, list them as main categories and get the performance back but this leaves a headache of how then to display and link all the categories manually on one page (I hope you understand what I mean here as it is a little jumbled I'm sure)
Regards
Leigh
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93661
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Hopefully finally...
Right the system I had in place was to use
Articles >
Motorcycle News >
Product Releases >
General Articles >
And so on.... Having the articles nested is not the issue here as I have now found out - the issue, causing me ALL my problems it seems is the inherit parameters from setting which was originally set as Motorcycle News simply because the Articles category has a totally different layout.
I moved the inherit parameters from setting to Product releases - still slow... So I koved it back to one of the image galleries and it is fast - very fast, the only difference as far as I can see with the two categories is that one has a handful of articles and the other hundreds - lightbulb!
Ok so for the 3 most popular categories on the site (listed above) I have kept them nested within the main articles category but set inherit parameters from to NONE, result = fast loading categories. This is not 100% ideal as it means now I have 3 categories to setup whenever I make changes so if any of you genius bods at JW can figure out how to negate the performance hit created in this way I am open to suggestion, for now the site loads fast so I am loathe to fiddle any more today, I even went back to the original layout and split css files in my template to at least get to the bottom of it - at least now I can streamline the whole thing again.
regards
Leigh
Right the system I had in place was to use
Articles >
Motorcycle News >
Product Releases >
General Articles >
And so on.... Having the articles nested is not the issue here as I have now found out - the issue, causing me ALL my problems it seems is the inherit parameters from setting which was originally set as Motorcycle News simply because the Articles category has a totally different layout.
I moved the inherit parameters from setting to Product releases - still slow... So I koved it back to one of the image galleries and it is fast - very fast, the only difference as far as I can see with the two categories is that one has a handful of articles and the other hundreds - lightbulb!
Ok so for the 3 most popular categories on the site (listed above) I have kept them nested within the main articles category but set inherit parameters from to NONE, result = fast loading categories. This is not 100% ideal as it means now I have 3 categories to setup whenever I make changes so if any of you genius bods at JW can figure out how to negate the performance hit created in this way I am open to suggestion, for now the site loads fast so I am loathe to fiddle any more today, I even went back to the original layout and split css files in my template to at least get to the bottom of it - at least now I can streamline the whole thing again.
regards
Leigh
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- BBC
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Posts: 663
13 years 7 months ago #93662
by BBC
Replied by BBC on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Try to disable Joomla´s mtupgrade mootools plugin. (System - Mootools Upgrade)
Just to see if it will be faster without it.
Just to see if it will be faster without it.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93663
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
Actually only if you are a guest - logged in users still have slow loading to conted with so I have been told - tested it myself and its right :(
bunglehaze said:
Hopefully finally...
Right the system I had in place was to use
Articles >
Motorcycle News >
Product Releases >
General Articles >
And so on.... Having the articles nested is not the issue here as I have now found out - the issue, causing me ALL my problems it seems is the inherit parameters from setting which was originally set as Motorcycle News simply because the Articles category has a totally different layout.
I moved the inherit parameters from setting to Product releases - still slow... So I koved it back to one of the image galleries and it is fast - very fast, the only difference as far as I can see with the two categories is that one has a handful of articles and the other hundreds - lightbulb!
Ok so for the 3 most popular categories on the site (listed above) I have kept them nested within the main articles category but set inherit parameters from to NONE, result = fast loading categories. This is not 100% ideal as it means now I have 3 categories to setup whenever I make changes so if any of you genius bods at JW can figure out how to negate the performance hit created in this way I am open to suggestion, for now the site loads fast so I am loathe to fiddle any more today, I even went back to the original layout and split css files in my template to at least get to the bottom of it - at least now I can streamline the whole thing again.
regards
Leigh
bunglehaze said:
Hopefully finally...
Right the system I had in place was to use
Articles >
Motorcycle News >
Product Releases >
General Articles >
And so on.... Having the articles nested is not the issue here as I have now found out - the issue, causing me ALL my problems it seems is the inherit parameters from setting which was originally set as Motorcycle News simply because the Articles category has a totally different layout.
I moved the inherit parameters from setting to Product releases - still slow... So I koved it back to one of the image galleries and it is fast - very fast, the only difference as far as I can see with the two categories is that one has a handful of articles and the other hundreds - lightbulb!
Ok so for the 3 most popular categories on the site (listed above) I have kept them nested within the main articles category but set inherit parameters from to NONE, result = fast loading categories. This is not 100% ideal as it means now I have 3 categories to setup whenever I make changes so if any of you genius bods at JW can figure out how to negate the performance hit created in this way I am open to suggestion, for now the site loads fast so I am loathe to fiddle any more today, I even went back to the original layout and split css files in my template to at least get to the bottom of it - at least now I can streamline the whole thing again.
regards
Leigh
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- bunglehaze
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Elite Member
Less
More
- Posts: 168
13 years 7 months ago #93664
by bunglehaze
Replied by bunglehaze on topic Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation
This makes no difference and actually my site needs MT1.2 to function correctly anyway, what is your thinking of why the Mootools plugin would make a difference to loading of nested categories for registered or guest users? The obvious thought would be bandwidth but this would affect all nested categories and not just highly populated ones.
BBC said:
Try to disable Joomla´s mtupgrade mootools plugin. (System - Mootools Upgrade)
Just to see if it will be faster without it.
BBC said:
Try to disable Joomla´s mtupgrade mootools plugin. (System - Mootools Upgrade)
Just to see if it will be faster without it.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Forum
- K2 Community Forum
- English K2 Community
- Page load bottleneck fao Fotis - re twitter conversation